I’m pretty sure they’re saying that customization, while present in Linux, is not accessible to most because of a lack of GUI options to configure a nontrivial number of the customization settings.

This is correct. I work with the “average user” of technology daily as IT support, and honestly, they don’t give any shits at all about why it’s messed up, or what needs to be done to correct the problem. Box broken, make fix.

The argument that I think the poster is trying to make is that, if a user needs to do any self troubleshooting, which is basically inevitable with technology at the moment, having to use a CLI to get things done is undesirable for the average person. They barely want to bother opening control panel in Windows (or the new “settings” app… Ugh.) nevermind understand any of it.

Box broken. Make fix.

IMO, this is a demonstration of the problem. You’re blaming the poster/their equipment. Rather than any real solution to the problem the defacto answer is “well, it works for me so what’s wrong with you?”

I’ve never heard this kind of toxicity from other communities (like the apple/Windows crowds). Often you’ll get useful answers indicating what to check or pointing to another resource. There’s always the chance that the hardware is busted, but let’s face it, in the modern era, that’s far less likely to happen now than it was even 10 years ago.

Immediately blaming the user for their issue isn’t going to solve the problem, nor does it endear any average user to the Linux community or the Linux OS. This attitude is not going to help adoption even if the posters concerns are invalidated by newer/better drivers/software, and all they need to do is update, and/or try again.

This kind of statement actively harms Linux adoption.

Exactly this. And pretty much everyone here is a techie in some way, shape, or form.

Why does anyone think that a non-tech would take the time to troubleshoot their system the way we do? A user would hit their first issue and in the process of trying to solve it, just go and buy a MacBook.

This isn’t going to endear people to Linux.

We will not win the majority of the market with Linux in it’s current form. We need better integration and package management. Self repairing subsystems. We need Linux to basically fix itself when these ridiculous issues come up that non techs simply can’t be arsed to try to fix.

There’s a long way to go before pushing Linux on anyone outside of tech circles. Unless you want to be the 24/7 free tech support, it’s easier just to throw a cheap Windows system or Mac at them and let them deal with it instead.

I hate the term “it just works” because it’s almost never true, but I can say that for non techs, Windows and Mac “just work” more often than Linux does.

I love Linux. I love everything about it. From the origin story, the ability to make your system lean and clean, running at optimal performance, and being able to adjust every knob and setting to my heart’s content. I love it. But I’m a realist. All the things I love about Linux, are largely reasons that non techs would hate Linux.

I can’t tell you how pissed I was when they did they. They invalidated so many links to solutions.

Granted, there was a lot of useless slop on there too, mostly from eol versions of Windows like 2000, millennium edition…

They threw all of it away, both good and bad, without warning. Without any opportunity for anyone to archive it. WTF Microsoft.

To their credit, their new documentation seems to be much better, they actually have useful help articles on not only how to do something, but also explaining the mechanisms, requirements and limitations of things. Not everything is in their new docs but I have to give credit where it’s due, the technical document writers are doing good work.

With all that being said, it doesn’t mean that Windows, or Microsoft are on a good trajectory.

Their new operating systems and updates are some of the worst updates and changes I’ve seen to their systems. Adding ads and basically spying on paying customers…

There are some controversial changes I’m in favor of, like the TPM requirement. A lot don’t realize it but Apple integrated a TPM in basically everything they make over the years. The migration was slow but it happened almost silently, without anyone really noticing. All major smartphones have some version of a TPM, so the last bastion of not having/needing one is the PC market.

The PC market has known they should include this stuff for years before Windows 11 was released. If you go and look at mid to high end motherboards, even for custom/retail units, there are at least TPM headers on most of them. OEMs knew this was coming and instead of just integrating it into their product, like everyone else did, they made it an optional feature. Since nobody knew what the fuck a TPM is, nobody bought into that option. Now millions of computers are destined for ewaste because manufacturers couldn’t be bothered to add a small IC to the system without being obligated to do so by someone like Microsoft. An entire industry of technology has this one thing that nobody even fucking knows exists, and they’re the hold out.

… And everyone is mad at Microsoft about it.

I’m not. TPM chips are a good addition to systems. It shouldn’t even be a debate. I blame OEMs for not bothering to add them when they could have/should have, and making it mandatory on all prebuilts, all retail motherboards, all boutique systems, all custom builds… Everything. The cost difference would have been into the tens of dollars at most. It would have barely made any difference at all.

Anyways. I’ll stop now.

This is the problem I see with most people adopting Linux.

It’s great when it works but when things go awry you end up sinking hours of time into an issue. Generally on Windows or Mac, the most you’ll have to do is remove it and re-add it.

If more is needed, the userbase is so large that there’s a high probability that someone has had your exact issue and posted a solution about it somewhere online, you just need to go and find it.

Linux is very hit and miss on a lot of these points. Sometimes it’s great, sometimes it sucks.

Windows tends to suck all the time, but the vast majority of the time it only sucks a little bit, because it’s Windows… It works, but it’s not great.

I’m all for Linux, but as someone who is more interested in doing useful work on my computer, not troubleshooting my system to get it to operate at all, I’ve stuck to Windows for a while now. I support Linux and prefer it to alternatives when running any server-based service, but for my desktop? I can’t justify the time investment in getting it to the same operational level as my current Windows install.

This is the same reason I bought a Dell, knowing full well that I could get more performance and a better value by building my own system. I absolutely can build a system for myself, I choose not to because it’s simply more work that I don’t care to spend time on. To be fair, my system is a precision 2RU HEDT, but that’s another discussion entirely.

Please don’t take me wrong: Linux is great and should see more adoption. My argument is that there’s a nontrivial number of people who want a system that simply operates, not one that turns into a science project because of a borked update. Windows updates have caused problems, but usually not everything-is-broken type problems… More that printing doesn’t work or something like that…

This is an interesting perspective, because in previous generations most of the long term fears were settled by simply doing nothing. They held their breath and it worked out.

The key difference is that the current generations are acutely aware that if we do nothing and just “stay calm and carry on”, we’re totally fucked. Inaction isn’t going to save us this time. We can’t put our heads in the sand and just sing ourselves to sleep then expect a good outcome when we resurface.

I think that’s a key differentiator. Previous generations were fearful of something happening. Current generations are fearful of nothing happening, because if nothing happens then the world will become uninhabitable by humans.

Yet, the majority of the decision-makers in our society are silent generation/boomers that drove to success by inaction and they’re largely doing nothing. We see this and understandably know how fucked we are.