Treating everyone you disagree with like they’re stupid is coping emotionally. Instead of taking the time to, idk discuss things with people they’ve written them off as dumb before they ever speak to them.
You don’t know fuck all how much I’ve done precisely that. I obsessively debated various political and economic ideologies for like a straight decade of my life in invite-only forums specifically designed for such debate. I changed my own mind over time, and changed other people’s minds. I’ve done it.
But I promise you, the people supporting these ideas proposed by the Trump administration are not just stupid, but WILLINGLY IGNORANT for their own selfish purposes. The amount coursing hatred I feel for them burns like the accretion disc of a quasar.
They are not people I would bother to debate. They are quite literally just my enemy. Mortal enemies. I don’t want middle ground with them. I want something else.
So, and correct me if I’m misunderstanding you, but you - from a series of echo chambers - managed to come to the conclusion that those trapped in echo chambers can’t be convinced they’re wrong?
It was literally the opposite of an echo chamber. It was full of people with vastly different ideologies and included even “sub flavors” of said ideologies. Liberals/Neoliberals/Social Democrats, Conservatives/NeoCons/PaleoCons, Libertarians/Anarcho-Capitalists, Communists/Socialists, Monarchists, Fascists/Nazis/Strasserites/Neoconfederates, every flavor of Anarchist. Hell, it had an unironic Anarcho-Primitivist somehow (yes they got the “But you’re on the internet, doesn’t that make you a hypocrite?” a lot).
It was a dedicated invite-only debate arena on Reddit. Moderated by Libertarians, who might have fucking stupid beliefs but apparently make for very relaxed moderators.
I have no idea what the specific goal was but it seems like it was just a place for interesting debate. I only know I got invited because of my advocacy for UBI on Reddit back when I was a (otherwise pro-capitalism) liberal and then from spending time there I morphed into a Mutualist/Market-Socialist.
Interesting, how did everyone else’s perspectives change (or at least what you can remember)? I’m really curious, the more you share about it the less skeptical and more interested I become.
There was one dude who was an antisemitic rightwinger and seemed to start adopting softer stances like “You can’t really blame Jews for being bankers historically, its just kind of where they ended up being pushed into by other religious groups. It doesn’t make sense to hate them for that.” or something to that effect. And he even started mixing some left & right leaning econ together.
That is the most notable example I can think of at the top of my head. But there were little bits and pieces that got chipped away I think for each interaction for the more open minded debaters I argued with.
Some were extremely stubborn though. I remember an anarcho-capitalist that was just dripping with disgust for socialists and basically never budged. He was a Youtuber too, I don’t remember his name though. Motherfucker hated me lol.
😂😂 Extremely stubborn and prone to hate, sounds about right.
There was one dude who was an antisemitic rightwinger and seemed to start adopting softer stances like “You can’t really blame Jews for being bankers historically, its just kind of where they ended up being pushed into by other religious groups. It doesn’t make sense to hate them for that.” or something to that effect. And he even started mixing some left & right leaning econ together.
It’s definitely stuff like this that interests me. I think eventually - when the dust finally settles - people are going to have to start talking again. Not like we are now, communicating with the intent of making things better. I have hope that if someone like that can be convinced to have even a little empathy for the people they’ve been told to hate, then there’s hope for the rest of them (and us all). I’m sorry that I insulted you, I should not have implied you were in an echo chamber - nor that you were the type of person to respond without reading.
It’s definitely stuff like this that interests me. I think eventually - when the dust finally settles - people are going to have to start talking again.
I think I’m done doing this though. I’ve done the work of being a patient debater for too long. I just want to give into hedonistic mud slinging at this point because I kind hate to say it but I think the world might be politically doomed anyway. I might as well get my jollies.
I just burned all my patience to nothing obsessing for so long. Decades of my life. And even if I somehow recover my political energy, I’ll still be living with the knowledge that my country let Trump win a second time. That 70% either voted for Trump or failed to vote against him and let him win. Its really hard to have hope with that knowledge. I’ll probably just kind rage for a bit, and then when I save enough money I want to flee to some other country if possible.
You don’t need to worry about insulting me. I probably deserve some insults.
I hope you manage to avoid the bitter void that I’ve fallen into.
You don’t know fuck all how much I’ve done precisely that. I obsessively debated various political and economic ideologies for like a straight decade of my life in invite-only forums specifically designed for such debate. I changed my own mind over time, and changed other people’s minds. I’ve done it.
But I promise you, the people supporting these ideas proposed by the Trump administration are not just stupid, but WILLINGLY IGNORANT for their own selfish purposes. The amount coursing hatred I feel for them burns like the accretion disc of a quasar.
They are not people I would bother to debate. They are quite literally just my enemy. Mortal enemies. I don’t want middle ground with them. I want something else.
So, and correct me if I’m misunderstanding you, but you - from a series of echo chambers - managed to come to the conclusion that those trapped in echo chambers can’t be convinced they’re wrong?
Am I reading that correctly?
It was literally the opposite of an echo chamber. It was full of people with vastly different ideologies and included even “sub flavors” of said ideologies. Liberals/Neoliberals/Social Democrats, Conservatives/NeoCons/PaleoCons, Libertarians/Anarcho-Capitalists, Communists/Socialists, Monarchists, Fascists/Nazis/Strasserites/Neoconfederates, every flavor of Anarchist. Hell, it had an unironic Anarcho-Primitivist somehow (yes they got the “But you’re on the internet, doesn’t that make you a hypocrite?” a lot).
It was a dedicated invite-only debate arena on Reddit. Moderated by Libertarians, who might have fucking stupid beliefs but apparently make for very relaxed moderators.
Ah, ok - that makes more sense. What was the goal? Simply a realm for debate?
I have no idea what the specific goal was but it seems like it was just a place for interesting debate. I only know I got invited because of my advocacy for UBI on Reddit back when I was a (otherwise pro-capitalism) liberal and then from spending time there I morphed into a Mutualist/Market-Socialist.
Interesting, how did everyone else’s perspectives change (or at least what you can remember)? I’m really curious, the more you share about it the less skeptical and more interested I become.
There was one dude who was an antisemitic rightwinger and seemed to start adopting softer stances like “You can’t really blame Jews for being bankers historically, its just kind of where they ended up being pushed into by other religious groups. It doesn’t make sense to hate them for that.” or something to that effect. And he even started mixing some left & right leaning econ together.
That is the most notable example I can think of at the top of my head. But there were little bits and pieces that got chipped away I think for each interaction for the more open minded debaters I argued with.
Some were extremely stubborn though. I remember an anarcho-capitalist that was just dripping with disgust for socialists and basically never budged. He was a Youtuber too, I don’t remember his name though. Motherfucker hated me lol.
😂😂 Extremely stubborn and prone to hate, sounds about right.
It’s definitely stuff like this that interests me. I think eventually - when the dust finally settles - people are going to have to start talking again. Not like we are now, communicating with the intent of making things better. I have hope that if someone like that can be convinced to have even a little empathy for the people they’ve been told to hate, then there’s hope for the rest of them (and us all). I’m sorry that I insulted you, I should not have implied you were in an echo chamber - nor that you were the type of person to respond without reading.
I think I’m done doing this though. I’ve done the work of being a patient debater for too long. I just want to give into hedonistic mud slinging at this point because I kind hate to say it but I think the world might be politically doomed anyway. I might as well get my jollies.
I just burned all my patience to nothing obsessing for so long. Decades of my life. And even if I somehow recover my political energy, I’ll still be living with the knowledge that my country let Trump win a second time. That 70% either voted for Trump or failed to vote against him and let him win. Its really hard to have hope with that knowledge. I’ll probably just kind rage for a bit, and then when I save enough money I want to flee to some other country if possible.
You don’t need to worry about insulting me. I probably deserve some insults.
I hope you manage to avoid the bitter void that I’ve fallen into.