WELL, it’s worth discussing that leading up to the 2024 US General Election there was a bit of a bizarre alliance between global leftists and MAGA when it comes to media and information warfare.
For completely opposite reasons each, of course. MAGA thought Trump was going to take the US to being the next level of Imperialist superpower. Global leftists thought Trump was going to destroy the US’s power and influence and end the era of the US being the world’s sole superpower.
Only time will tell who was correct. Right now it looks like the global leftists were right - the US’s influence is rapidly deteriorating, and it may never recover.
Trump is looking like a big global leftist win in taking down the US - at the cost of many Palestinian lives. And maybe this was the trolley dilemma, with millions of Palestinians on one track, and billions of people on the other. Can we accuse leftists of being the ones to flip the switch? No, but leftists absolutely argued in favor of flipping the switch to trump and the downfall of America, at the cost of many Palestinian lives.
You are right that it is necessary to have this conversation but is it the right place to do it under this particular post ?
Also even if I totally understand your point of view and could definitely debate about it, something is bothering me, where does the democratic party errors comes into play? Why put all the blames on a minor part of the voter base? If we look at hard numbers the chances of Kamala winning were still extremely low even if she won their votes so it’s seem pointless for me to always keep poking the wounds under any post with a mention of Palestinians.
My point is that we should be going forward and not ostracizing a part of the voter base even more, these are hard times ahead of us and uniting is what I think the only solution, some Pro-Palestinians may have not voted or even voted for trump but we need to remember that if they are (rightly) angry it’s because they have been failed, I cannot fathom how one must feel seeing dozens of corpses everyday that looks like them for more than a year while knowing their taxes go towards the ones doing it.
It’s a duty to reconcile the voter base and create a strong front against fascism worldwide.
It’s going to be difficult for global leftists to find a willingness for solidarity and cooperation with the suffering people, who feel like their suffering was the goal. But with a lot of creativity, might be possible.
Now for sure, people were already suffering under Capitalism previously, but leftists are basically pitching the same " it has to get worse so it can get better" story as Elon Musk.
Now if leftists had backed Kamala, and Trump won, suffering people would be flocking to the left, instead of blaming them.
You are writing fanfiction here, I don’t think any serious leftist wants things to go sour for the US. As a leftist from outside the USA i often warn that the moment America crumbles we will all be struck by the sharpnell. If you take up some actual leftist literature, say some Noam Chomsky, some Baudrillard, some Felix Guattari, the overall feeling is " the contradictions of capitalism will mount and things will get considerably worse. " a lot of them suggest ideas on how to prevent these maladies, I’d recommend Guattari’s “Cartographies of desire” but sadly the USA seems like is on it’s full speed on course to ruin: facism in it’s government going progressively shameless, the over finatialization of it’s economy, the fact that political division and misinformation has been a strategy to undermine democracy used by both political parties, Oligarchy being so eager to turn “feudal” and several crisis of education. Things will get bad not because leftists wish it so, but because it will seem miraculous if they get better.
Either way, Americans have never cared whst leftists have to say. Their mere words will not change your reality.
You are writing fanfiction here, I don’t think any serious leftist wants things to go sour for the US.
I’m not writing fanfiction, I’m taking online dialogue from self-described leftists at their word. Now every individual is different, maybe a bunch of these were misinformation trolls calling themselves leftists. Maybe they were exaggerating and they don’t want the entire US to fall, they just want to get rid of NATO got carried away being edgy online. I get whiplash from how fast the script can seemingly flip sometimes.
sadly the USA seems like is on it’s full speed on course to ruin: fascism in it’s government going progressively shameless
I was told over and over and over again that full blown fascism in the US was better than secret fascism. Maybe from trolls, but I heard it over and over.
I would like to mitigate your opinion with the fact that throughout history, it was people with “leftists” ideas that allowed for a fairer society and most social rights, nowadays they are the one doing most for international justice and climate change, making them all accelerationists when a lot of them literally put their lives in jeopardy to make the world a better place for people they don’t know all while many democrats and liberals laughed about them because “tomato sauce on a plastic case in a museum is silly they should be put in prison for 5 years poor painting” or “some leftist didnt voted for kamala and now many palestinians get annihilated, love to see the pain on their face”.
I guess lots of things must change…
Also how do you know most leftists didn’t voted for Harris? From all I know the loud anti Kamala crowds has been amplified by foreign actors like in 2016 to make it look like it was a majority and divide the democrats further as well as reinforced gerrymandering policies. Let’s remind ourselves that Biden had 4 years to put trump and his corrupted goons in prison yet did nothing, the left has never ever been in power throughout the existence of the US putting the blame on them for trump is silly as they are the last barrier of protection before full blown fascism.
I was explicit about not blaming leftists for Trump. I can’t say that leftists are the reason Trump won office. Trump likely could still have won without any leftists. BUT. There was/is a leftist/MAGA alliance, let me demonstrate.
First:
Genocide Joe
Killer Kamala
Donald Trump
Next:
Start a conversation with a leftist about Genocide Joe and Palestine, good chance they never bring up Trump.
Start a conversation with leftist about Trump and Palestine, it’s impossible to avoid the conversation becoming entirely about Genocide Joe and the Democrats.
Unconsciously, leftists have given Trump and MAGA a free pass on genocide. No nicknames, no blame.
“some leftist didnt voted for kamala and now many palestinians get annihilated, love to see the pain on their face”
No, more like, “is it now bad enough that MAGA loses its free pass on genocide now? Nope some leftist came to explain to everyone why it’s actually all Genocide Joe’s fault still”.
Unconsciously, leftists have given Trump and MAGA a free pass on genocide. No nicknames, no blame.
Oh there are plenty of nicknames for Trump out there, don’tbemistaken.
My personal favorite is Traitor Trump for the alliteration like the ones you present.
But even if you haven’t seen any of these, that doesn’t mean the Left hasn’t been critical of Trump. See, Trump after taking office has issued so many executive orders as to flood the zone that it has divided attention on the Left (and anyone else for that matter) for what to criticize first.
Perhaps what Leftists mean when they say that it’s still Biden’s fault is that Joe should have ran a primary and put the best, strongest leader the Democrats could muster against the phenom Trump. But Biden had to wait until his utter humiliation on live TV for change to happen, even though Biden initially talked about being a 1-term president. He even said this back in 2015!!
While yes the most blame right now should be placed on Republicans, Trump, and Elon, the next portion of blame needs to squarely sit with establishment Democrats, the DNC, and Biden. Many liberals will overlook this aspect by placing the next most blame on the voters, but with no federal Election Day holiday in the US and increasing anti-voter tactics on behalf of the GOP, no wonder more people don’t vote.
But the Democrats need to and should have inspired those voters to vote anyhow, like Obama did in 2008 and Bernie did in 2016 and 2020. Instead we got monotone Kamala Harris whose only campaign positive was Tim Walz and his policy stances imo.
I should disclaim that I’m a leftist and criticized Kamala all the way to the general election, but still voted for her when the time came.
You missed my point. It was always clear for +90% of leftists that trump was worst.
You will not feel betrayed by your enemies but you will feel betrayed by your allies is the point.
Still there is no interest in discussing why this demographic felt betrayed, democrats were angry when trump backstabbed Zelensky rightly so, yet you cannot see how it was the same thing when the democrats were collaborating with the extermination of the people they were supposed to protect? with the extreme violence lashed out on the protest? The harassment? The doxxing? The clear avoidance of international sanctions etc.
Like come on, it would not have been my choice to not vote or vote trump but at some point we should reflect on the why and understand that the democrats acted in a shitty way and betrayed their voter base, it’s as simple as that.
You missed my point. It was always clear for +90% of leftists that trump was worst.
To me, this feels like a retcon out of hindsight.
The entire year up to election day all I saw was posts downplaying Project 2025, Trump’s authoritarianism, the threat to Democracy. Complaining that the media over-sensationalizes anything to do with trump. Accusing everyone worried about Trump that they’re just hysterical. Just crazy people thinking that every election ever, Democracy is at stake. And if you vote against Trump actually you’re just blue MAGA anyway with the blood of genocide on your hands.
Maybe it was clear to leftists that Trump was the worst, but leftists sure didn’t make it clear to anyone else that they gave a shit.
WELL, it’s worth discussing that leading up to the 2024 US General Election there was a bit of a bizarre alliance between global leftists and MAGA when it comes to media and information warfare.
For completely opposite reasons each, of course. MAGA thought Trump was going to take the US to being the next level of Imperialist superpower. Global leftists thought Trump was going to destroy the US’s power and influence and end the era of the US being the world’s sole superpower.
Only time will tell who was correct. Right now it looks like the global leftists were right - the US’s influence is rapidly deteriorating, and it may never recover.
Trump is looking like a big global leftist win in taking down the US - at the cost of many Palestinian lives. And maybe this was the trolley dilemma, with millions of Palestinians on one track, and billions of people on the other. Can we accuse leftists of being the ones to flip the switch? No, but leftists absolutely argued in favor of flipping the switch to trump and the downfall of America, at the cost of many Palestinian lives.
You are right that it is necessary to have this conversation but is it the right place to do it under this particular post ?
Also even if I totally understand your point of view and could definitely debate about it, something is bothering me, where does the democratic party errors comes into play? Why put all the blames on a minor part of the voter base? If we look at hard numbers the chances of Kamala winning were still extremely low even if she won their votes so it’s seem pointless for me to always keep poking the wounds under any post with a mention of Palestinians.
My point is that we should be going forward and not ostracizing a part of the voter base even more, these are hard times ahead of us and uniting is what I think the only solution, some Pro-Palestinians may have not voted or even voted for trump but we need to remember that if they are (rightly) angry it’s because they have been failed, I cannot fathom how one must feel seeing dozens of corpses everyday that looks like them for more than a year while knowing their taxes go towards the ones doing it.
It’s a duty to reconcile the voter base and create a strong front against fascism worldwide.
Global leftists want the fall of America
Global leftists advocate for the fall of America
America starts falling
People suffer because America is calling
It’s going to be difficult for global leftists to find a willingness for solidarity and cooperation with the suffering people, who feel like their suffering was the goal. But with a lot of creativity, might be possible.
Now for sure, people were already suffering under Capitalism previously, but leftists are basically pitching the same " it has to get worse so it can get better" story as Elon Musk.
Now if leftists had backed Kamala, and Trump won, suffering people would be flocking to the left, instead of blaming them.
So… Sucks.
You are writing fanfiction here, I don’t think any serious leftist wants things to go sour for the US. As a leftist from outside the USA i often warn that the moment America crumbles we will all be struck by the sharpnell. If you take up some actual leftist literature, say some Noam Chomsky, some Baudrillard, some Felix Guattari, the overall feeling is " the contradictions of capitalism will mount and things will get considerably worse. " a lot of them suggest ideas on how to prevent these maladies, I’d recommend Guattari’s “Cartographies of desire” but sadly the USA seems like is on it’s full speed on course to ruin: facism in it’s government going progressively shameless, the over finatialization of it’s economy, the fact that political division and misinformation has been a strategy to undermine democracy used by both political parties, Oligarchy being so eager to turn “feudal” and several crisis of education. Things will get bad not because leftists wish it so, but because it will seem miraculous if they get better.
Either way, Americans have never cared whst leftists have to say. Their mere words will not change your reality.
I’m not writing fanfiction, I’m taking online dialogue from self-described leftists at their word. Now every individual is different, maybe a bunch of these were misinformation trolls calling themselves leftists. Maybe they were exaggerating and they don’t want the entire US to fall, they just want to get rid of NATO got carried away being edgy online. I get whiplash from how fast the script can seemingly flip sometimes.
I was told over and over and over again that full blown fascism in the US was better than secret fascism. Maybe from trolls, but I heard it over and over.
I would like to mitigate your opinion with the fact that throughout history, it was people with “leftists” ideas that allowed for a fairer society and most social rights, nowadays they are the one doing most for international justice and climate change, making them all accelerationists when a lot of them literally put their lives in jeopardy to make the world a better place for people they don’t know all while many democrats and liberals laughed about them because “tomato sauce on a plastic case in a museum is silly they should be put in prison for 5 years poor painting” or “some leftist didnt voted for kamala and now many palestinians get annihilated, love to see the pain on their face”.
I guess lots of things must change…
Also how do you know most leftists didn’t voted for Harris? From all I know the loud anti Kamala crowds has been amplified by foreign actors like in 2016 to make it look like it was a majority and divide the democrats further as well as reinforced gerrymandering policies. Let’s remind ourselves that Biden had 4 years to put trump and his corrupted goons in prison yet did nothing, the left has never ever been in power throughout the existence of the US putting the blame on them for trump is silly as they are the last barrier of protection before full blown fascism.
I was explicit about not blaming leftists for Trump. I can’t say that leftists are the reason Trump won office. Trump likely could still have won without any leftists. BUT. There was/is a leftist/MAGA alliance, let me demonstrate.
First:
Genocide Joe
Killer Kamala
Donald Trump
Next:
Start a conversation with a leftist about Genocide Joe and Palestine, good chance they never bring up Trump.
Start a conversation with leftist about Trump and Palestine, it’s impossible to avoid the conversation becoming entirely about Genocide Joe and the Democrats.
Unconsciously, leftists have given Trump and MAGA a free pass on genocide. No nicknames, no blame.
No, more like, “is it now bad enough that MAGA loses its free pass on genocide now? Nope some leftist came to explain to everyone why it’s actually all Genocide Joe’s fault still”.
Oh there are plenty of nicknames for Trump out there, don’t be mistaken.
My personal favorite is Traitor Trump for the alliteration like the ones you present.
But even if you haven’t seen any of these, that doesn’t mean the Left hasn’t been critical of Trump. See, Trump after taking office has issued so many executive orders as to flood the zone that it has divided attention on the Left (and anyone else for that matter) for what to criticize first.
Perhaps what Leftists mean when they say that it’s still Biden’s fault is that Joe should have ran a primary and put the best, strongest leader the Democrats could muster against the phenom Trump. But Biden had to wait until his utter humiliation on live TV for change to happen, even though Biden initially talked about being a 1-term president. He even said this back in 2015!!
While yes the most blame right now should be placed on Republicans, Trump, and Elon, the next portion of blame needs to squarely sit with establishment Democrats, the DNC, and Biden. Many liberals will overlook this aspect by placing the next most blame on the voters, but with no federal Election Day holiday in the US and increasing anti-voter tactics on behalf of the GOP, no wonder more people don’t vote.
But the Democrats need to and should have inspired those voters to vote anyhow, like Obama did in 2008 and Bernie did in 2016 and 2020. Instead we got monotone Kamala Harris whose only campaign positive was Tim Walz and his policy stances imo.
I should disclaim that I’m a leftist and criticized Kamala all the way to the general election, but still voted for her when the time came.
centrists and maga are aligned in their support for genocide. maga just has other policies in addition to genocide support.
Unfortunately yes, but point being that maga gets a free pass on genocide.
Even now the backlash against maga is mostly over Elon Musk taking a chainsaw to federal jobs and funding for social programs.
Yes, your constituency has standards and theirs doesn’t.
You missed my point. It was always clear for +90% of leftists that trump was worst.
You will not feel betrayed by your enemies but you will feel betrayed by your allies is the point.
Still there is no interest in discussing why this demographic felt betrayed, democrats were angry when trump backstabbed Zelensky rightly so, yet you cannot see how it was the same thing when the democrats were collaborating with the extermination of the people they were supposed to protect? with the extreme violence lashed out on the protest? The harassment? The doxxing? The clear avoidance of international sanctions etc.
Like come on, it would not have been my choice to not vote or vote trump but at some point we should reflect on the why and understand that the democrats acted in a shitty way and betrayed their voter base, it’s as simple as that.
To me, this feels like a retcon out of hindsight.
The entire year up to election day all I saw was posts downplaying Project 2025, Trump’s authoritarianism, the threat to Democracy. Complaining that the media over-sensationalizes anything to do with trump. Accusing everyone worried about Trump that they’re just hysterical. Just crazy people thinking that every election ever, Democracy is at stake. And if you vote against Trump actually you’re just blue MAGA anyway with the blood of genocide on your hands.
Maybe it was clear to leftists that Trump was the worst, but leftists sure didn’t make it clear to anyone else that they gave a shit.