But I will say that this model of yours that says people do these things because they are stupid or “dumb” might help you cope emotionally, but it prevents you from reaching any genuine insight.
I’m not the person you were responding to but I just wanted to make perfectly clear that you are 100% full of shit.
It doesn’t give anyone ANY measure of “cope” that so many people are fucking stupid. Its terrifying, despairing, and awful. I would rather delusionally believe I could convince them of rational stances, now that would be cope.
You should probably… idk, actually read what they said.
Treating everyone you disagree with like they’re stupid is coping emotionally. Instead of taking the time to, idk discuss things with people they’ve written them off as dumb before they ever speak to them.
Yes, approaching discourse this way and believing that you can achieve any kind of middle ground is delusional.
Treating everyone you disagree with like they’re stupid is coping emotionally. Instead of taking the time to, idk discuss things with people they’ve written them off as dumb before they ever speak to them.
You don’t know fuck all how much I’ve done precisely that. I obsessively debated various political and economic ideologies for like a straight decade of my life in invite-only forums specifically designed for such debate. I changed my own mind over time, and changed other people’s minds. I’ve done it.
But I promise you, the people supporting these ideas proposed by the Trump administration are not just stupid, but WILLINGLY IGNORANT for their own selfish purposes. The amount coursing hatred I feel for them burns like the accretion disc of a quasar.
They are not people I would bother to debate. They are quite literally just my enemy. Mortal enemies. I don’t want middle ground with them. I want something else.
So, and correct me if I’m misunderstanding you, but you - from a series of echo chambers - managed to come to the conclusion that those trapped in echo chambers can’t be convinced they’re wrong?
It was literally the opposite of an echo chamber. It was full of people with vastly different ideologies and included even “sub flavors” of said ideologies. Liberals/Neoliberals/Social Democrats, Conservatives/NeoCons/PaleoCons, Libertarians/Anarcho-Capitalists, Communists/Socialists, Monarchists, Fascists/Nazis/Strasserites/Neoconfederates, every flavor of Anarchist. Hell, it had an unironic Anarcho-Primitivist somehow (yes they got the “But you’re on the internet, doesn’t that make you a hypocrite?” a lot).
It was a dedicated invite-only debate arena on Reddit. Moderated by Libertarians, who might have fucking stupid beliefs but apparently make for very relaxed moderators.
I have no idea what the specific goal was but it seems like it was just a place for interesting debate. I only know I got invited because of my advocacy for UBI on Reddit back when I was a (otherwise pro-capitalism) liberal and then from spending time there I morphed into a Mutualist/Market-Socialist.
Interesting, how did everyone else’s perspectives change (or at least what you can remember)? I’m really curious, the more you share about it the less skeptical and more interested I become.
There was one dude who was an antisemitic rightwinger and seemed to start adopting softer stances like “You can’t really blame Jews for being bankers historically, its just kind of where they ended up being pushed into by other religious groups. It doesn’t make sense to hate them for that.” or something to that effect. And he even started mixing some left & right leaning econ together.
That is the most notable example I can think of at the top of my head. But there were little bits and pieces that got chipped away I think for each interaction for the more open minded debaters I argued with.
Some were extremely stubborn though. I remember an anarcho-capitalist that was just dripping with disgust for socialists and basically never budged. He was a Youtuber too, I don’t remember his name though. Motherfucker hated me lol.
I’m not the person you were responding to but I just wanted to make perfectly clear that you are 100% full of shit.
It doesn’t give anyone ANY measure of “cope” that so many people are fucking stupid. Its terrifying, despairing, and awful. I would rather delusionally believe I could convince them of rational stances, now that would be cope.
You should probably… idk, actually read what they said.
Treating everyone you disagree with like they’re stupid is coping emotionally. Instead of taking the time to, idk discuss things with people they’ve written them off as dumb before they ever speak to them.
Yes, approaching discourse this way and believing that you can achieve any kind of middle ground is delusional.
You don’t know fuck all how much I’ve done precisely that. I obsessively debated various political and economic ideologies for like a straight decade of my life in invite-only forums specifically designed for such debate. I changed my own mind over time, and changed other people’s minds. I’ve done it.
But I promise you, the people supporting these ideas proposed by the Trump administration are not just stupid, but WILLINGLY IGNORANT for their own selfish purposes. The amount coursing hatred I feel for them burns like the accretion disc of a quasar.
They are not people I would bother to debate. They are quite literally just my enemy. Mortal enemies. I don’t want middle ground with them. I want something else.
So, and correct me if I’m misunderstanding you, but you - from a series of echo chambers - managed to come to the conclusion that those trapped in echo chambers can’t be convinced they’re wrong?
Am I reading that correctly?
It was literally the opposite of an echo chamber. It was full of people with vastly different ideologies and included even “sub flavors” of said ideologies. Liberals/Neoliberals/Social Democrats, Conservatives/NeoCons/PaleoCons, Libertarians/Anarcho-Capitalists, Communists/Socialists, Monarchists, Fascists/Nazis/Strasserites/Neoconfederates, every flavor of Anarchist. Hell, it had an unironic Anarcho-Primitivist somehow (yes they got the “But you’re on the internet, doesn’t that make you a hypocrite?” a lot).
It was a dedicated invite-only debate arena on Reddit. Moderated by Libertarians, who might have fucking stupid beliefs but apparently make for very relaxed moderators.
Ah, ok - that makes more sense. What was the goal? Simply a realm for debate?
I have no idea what the specific goal was but it seems like it was just a place for interesting debate. I only know I got invited because of my advocacy for UBI on Reddit back when I was a (otherwise pro-capitalism) liberal and then from spending time there I morphed into a Mutualist/Market-Socialist.
Interesting, how did everyone else’s perspectives change (or at least what you can remember)? I’m really curious, the more you share about it the less skeptical and more interested I become.
There was one dude who was an antisemitic rightwinger and seemed to start adopting softer stances like “You can’t really blame Jews for being bankers historically, its just kind of where they ended up being pushed into by other religious groups. It doesn’t make sense to hate them for that.” or something to that effect. And he even started mixing some left & right leaning econ together.
That is the most notable example I can think of at the top of my head. But there were little bits and pieces that got chipped away I think for each interaction for the more open minded debaters I argued with.
Some were extremely stubborn though. I remember an anarcho-capitalist that was just dripping with disgust for socialists and basically never budged. He was a Youtuber too, I don’t remember his name though. Motherfucker hated me lol.