Not a parent but I read this and have my personal opinions, curious what others think about it.
I raised my kids to be independent and was not very controlling - they think I was pretty hands off because they don’t remember the earliest years - but I can’t imagine doing that without literally teaching them what was reasonable behavior for different spaces. We did restaurant training, sit in your chair, use the utensils, don’t yell. In stores, “put your hands behind” was the cue, not “don’t touch” because it’s easier to tell them to do something than to not do something.
At the park though? My only rule was don’t show off, don’t do anything to show off. If you want to climb the tree because you want to climb the tree, go for it but no “look at me I’m in the tree” because then you will probably go past what’s safe for you. When they fell down while running ask “you gonna be ok?” not “are you ok?”
Compared to their friends’ parents, the younger ones think I’m nearly neglectful but it’s more than my mom did, parenting right now while there are fewer kids around us so weird. So many parents are so controlling even of their high schoolers. You are trying to raise competent adults, they have to have the space to make decisions and mistakes to do that.
1- this is cursed
2- i dont think this belongs in asklemmy
What community would be more appropriate? I’m pretty loose with fediverse communities. I’d rather throw more content up even if it’s not the best fit just to give Lemmy more content and this post got a shitton of interaction
ive neer seen link posts on asklemmy, and its generally used for self posts. i think its probably more of a fit in a curiosity comm. this kind of controversial but kind of funny takes do well in shitposting comms too.
it did appear to have sparked some discussion here now so actually on second tought, why not keep it here.
The framing of this article is all wrong. There aren’t just two choices: discipline or wild abandon. There’s times and places for both. Five pm at the colorful hippy burrito spot with dinosaur toys and a large play area, let them run free. Out at a special dinner with family bring them with, set your timer for their ability to keep it together and make adjustments as needed. If they don’t meet the standard, thats cool. Not their fault and probably not even your fault. Do a vibe check and leave if needed.
Hell, I’m all for your kid doing frog jumps down the grocery aisle, but be a sentinal and see if there’s a person in that aisle that would care. You can read the people who are delighted by the child’s exuberance and those who want nothing to do with it. I’m not a big fan of screens, but they have their time and place like on the six hour flight.
Any case, there’s only so much you can do when parenting. Creating a safe connection for them is so important and then trusting you to see them, receive them, and make the unknown a little bit safer is all a tall task.
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Fine, but don’t get mad when I laugh at them tripping and falling.
Let them run and play and fall and get scrapes, yes. Don’t be a helicopter parent. But when other people are around, respect the social contract.
I witnessed a dad (friend of a friend at a group dinner) nearly get in a fist fight because someone asked him to corral his kids that were interfering with their meal. Madness.
The author admits to have let their kids, who are 2yo and 4yo roam free in restaurants to the point they have ended up in the kitchen, that right there tells you how responsible of a parent she is and how good of an approach hers is.
That’s wild lol, I’d be way too embarrassed.
Do people not have the experience of peeking into the restaurant kitchen growing up?
One year I was on an elementary school trip at this restaurant that did a little historical show along with the meal, with a lot of crowd interaction, and I got caught up in acting out my role and went into the kitchen at which point I was immediately told that was off-limits, and I never did it again.
Not the same thing as letting a 2-year-old into a kitchen though. But I definitely explored and learned what was appropriate and what wasn’t as I grew up.
I’m, honestly, surprised (and thankful) those kids weren’t kidnapped by now, due to this “parent” refusing to parent.
E: Autocorrect
You watch too many movies
When your little brother’s hand gets snatched by some wanker at a Tesco fruit isle, while your mum is at the fish counter, and tries to take him, you can tell me I’m being irrational. Until then, you have nothing to say.
I say fuck people like this. And if you are people like this, then fuck you too.
Public space is for public, not just your kids. If you let your kids run wild, then you are sacrificing other people’s freedom.
Also, this is how entitled little bitches are created. Do you want your kid to be an entitled little bitch?
I had a glorious moment at a restaurant with my extended family where there was a large group with kids at the next table letting them run riot. The parents were all nursing huge glasses of white wine and chatting away while the kids bothered other diners, waiters, etc.
At the end of the meal, after paying the bill, my uncle went over to the parents and told them their kids had ruined our meal. One of the parents tried to protest that he’d obviously never had kids. He responds, “I raised 3 kids and none of them ever behaved as badly as yours have done this afternoon.” Mic drop; my party left.
My hero!
It was British high drama
You seem to be implying that you are somehow more entitled to that public space than kids. Sounds like something an entitled little bitch would say. Are you an entitled little bitch? Public space is for the public, ALL the public. If let your own hangups lead you to bullying the most naive and impressionable of us, then you are sacrificing other people’s freedom. And if you are people like this then I say, “fuck you too”. The social contract of public space doesn’t entitled you to be unbothered by other people.
To be clear I am in no way excusing parents that do not actually parent their children, especially in public. However the logic of the above comment is just a bunch of “get off my lawn” anti-social ME generation boomer energy. Also, kind of telling that the parent commenter just doesn’t see the parallels between their entitled attitude and everyone else’s entitlement. It’s a public space, if you can’t be compassionate, you don’t deserve it any more than anyone else.
You must be one of those entitled parents, or people who get offended on behalf of others. Either way, I have nothing to say to you.
It’s also how kidnappings happen. It’s stupid.
I hate this attitude. “Never let your child out of your sight or they’ll immediately be kidnapped”.
You know they’re more likely to be abused by family than a stranger. By your rationale you should never allow family to see your children either.
When your little brother’s hand gets snatched by some wanker at a Tesco fruit isle, while your mum is at the fish counter, and tries to take him, you can tell me I’m being irrational. Until then, you have nothing to say.
How do you know the wanker wasn’t related to you in some way?
Lol good come back question to a traumatic event recollection. He wasn’t related.
I’m on the fence. It’s a pretty subjective topic no? Public spaces will always have conflict due to many people have many preferences.
I teach kids, and a lesson I have with them is on “context”.
The game of tag, is it good or bad?
Well, on the playground it is good, really fun actually!
But in music class or at the library? It’s really bad.
The game didn’t change, the context did. Same goes with parenting imo. In fact I’d go so far as to say that teaching your kids to be considerate of the spaces they are in is a good thing.
I grew up with my mom telling us to keep our hands behind our back when going into an antique store or to be polite at the dinner table, and I was always invited to dinners and nice places by my friends parents because they knew I’d behave.
Going off of this, If you never give your kids the chance to exist independently in public spaces (and appropriately discipline them/ teach them) they’ll grow up without really learning this well.
I can’t believe how many kids (high school) these days will call their parents to help them out of any uncertain task in a public space rather than try to figure it out on their own.
Recent example was I was taking a kid to the customer service desk on a trip I was chaperoning because they forgot their pass, and they were so lost about what to do and were calling their parents for help. I had to tell them relax, we’ll just explain the problem to the person at the desk and see what they say. And he could barely do that.
I imagine that if you as a kid had the freedom to explore museums and stuff semi-independently as a 10 year old but also under supervision, they would have so much more confidence in public spaces on their own later.
There is a difference between disciplining and helicoptering.
I guess including conflict of people trying to take your kids and ransom them.
I hate to sound like an old person with my “people these days rant”, but it’s just people being inconsiderate, and it’s everywhere. People stand in doorways and elevators, make people behind them on the road wait while they turn from the wrong lane, cut in lines, run red lights because they don’t want to wait, etc.
This is simply people being selfish and not wanting to parent, there’s no difference. There are places where kids can run wild and be themselves, but it’s not literally everywhere. Remember that the end goal is to raise not a child, but an empathetic, functioning member of society. So start teaching them early…
I definitely don’t feel like we live in a world where too much respect for others in public has become a problem.
I’m a parent and do not agree with this approach. Everyone should behave in public - and kids should practice so they can learn. At home, my kids get to behave like animals and we do things where they can behave like kids, like trampoline park, zoo, the arcade, etc. When we are out at places where the kids should behave, we bring them iPads and headphones so they are able to make it through the activity. But it is just rude to let your kid intrude and ruin a dinner, museum, movie, etc for others.
They had to use a lazy Photoshop of kids running wild in a museum, because literally any museum can, should, and would kick them out immediately.
Not reading the article (why is an article even posted here) but the author is at best writing an article they know will piss people off.
It’s rage bait, which is likely why OP posted it
If you actually read it (or at least half of it, it was too long for me to finish) the author isn’t letting them play tag in a museum or anything crazy like that. There are people that do that kind of stuff, and there are limits to how wild your kids should get, but the author sounds like a reasonable parent comparing themselves to an unreasonable standard that they assume others are comparing them to.
Honestly, I couldn’t tell if I would be annoyed by how they handled their children or not. They are certainly not an unbiased source, and they could either be exaggerating how wild their children are in public, or oblivious to how bad they are. One would have to see it in person to know.
Very true. People over react in both directions on this.
That was my take as well. She even closes with asking us if we’re reacting to actual problems, or just what people perceive as problems (in other words, spirit or letter of the “law”).
I understand the thought process and agree to a point - kids are definitely on too tight of leashes these days.
That said, everything I read in that article tells me that the author is a fucking horrible parent and I wouldn’t want to ever be in 1000 feet of her demons.
Yes, your kids should have some freedom. No, they shouldn’t actively be bothering everyone around them every moment they’re out of the house. Teach them respect and kindness, too.
A bit hyperbolic but something I have noticed in a lot of this parenting style tips are that either the kid needs to be padded up head to toe on a leash glued to their parent 24/7 or they should be allowed run wild screaming at the top of their lungs at restaurants and museums.
There is very little in-between, unless you find the sane person in the comments. Kinda like a lot of things nowadays, sadly.
My opinion?
I doubt such a person will ever be able to realize public space is not hers and is not there for her to use as she pleases. Public space is, well, public and shared between everybody and as such must be used with consideration to others. What would that incredibly tolerant (towards herself/her kids) lady say if I was to, say, come sit right next to her and loudly fart while she is eating her sandwich?
She can let her kids splash (and fart as loudly and) as much as they/she wants in her own home. Heck, she can even let them burn her house down if she thinks it’s good for them. But what will she say the day her kids get hurt doing some stupid shit like that?
Does she really need a fucking ‘handbook’ to understand the cosmic level of stupidity she’s reaching for? That’s so unbelievably clueless and egoistical. But whats so sad is to realize it’s not even surprising anymore.
I will have one last thought for those poor kids, just imagining the kind of teens and young adults she’s preparing them to be :(
The author’s critical approach to what is ‘polite’ is all well and good, but I have reservations about what she considers the limit.
As for the ‘doing no harm to others’, she must recognize that the harm her children do may not be readily apparent. When I’ve got a massive migrane, I don’t want to hear her kids screaming in the next booth over, but I also don’t want to have to confront her about it and risk her screaming also. Better to sit and suffer until I can’t.
Some of these seem fine, some of them not so fine. Letting kids run around at a restaurant? I’d call that not fine. Other people are paying to be there and they probably don’t want to deal with your kids running around and past their table. The concerns about servers tripping over them are real, even if it’s not actually happening. I suspect the servers would prefer not to have to dodge someone’s kids to prevent that from happening.
The fountain? Not a problem, no one was being inconvenienced there, no one was paying to be there and having their time disrupted. They weren’t creating a dangerous situation.
The barbecue? Not a problem, they were invited, presumably by someone who understands what they’re getting into, and they can be uninvited, or not invited next time if it’s a problem.
Bottom line is, there’s places where it’s appropriate to let your kids run around and be wild, and there’s places where it’s not, and if your kids aren’t capable of not doing it in places where it isn’t appropriate, that’s a problem.
Just look at any public restroom, where the sinks are too high for them to reach
Well, maybe your two-year-old isn’t entitled to low sinks in a public restroom not specifically designed for children (e.g. at a school)? That shit costs money, why would they install low sinks just so kids who amount for a tiny percentage of the users can use them without parental assistance?
The bathroom thing just illustrates that we don’t accommodate kids in our society. There are probably more kids in the population who could use low sinks than you see because our public spaces are so hostile to them.
It’s more common in Europe (e.g. Sweden) for folks to bring their kids everywhere, and the physicality of those locations accommodates them because they are more present.
The bathroom argument that you made is akin to saying that folks shouldn’t feel entitled to bike lines / safe sidewalks because our cities were designed for cars and sidewalks and bike lanes are expensive for a tiny percent of the moving population.
Wouldn’t it be easier to have stools available that a kid could pull up to the sink to use a normal height sink, than to have sinks that are exclusively useful by kids?
The bathroom argument that you made is akin to saying that folks shouldn’t feel entitled to bike lines / safe sidewalks because our cities were designed for cars and sidewalks and bike lanes are expensive for a tiny percent of the moving population.
Bike lanes are installed by the government using taxpayer funding. Bathrooms (in non-public spaces) are installed by private companies. Difference in expectations there, for sure.
Stools are a great solution!
